Topic: Character balance

This topic contains 7 replies, has 7 voices, and was last updated by  lacivert 2 weeks ago.

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  • #12191

    Ktulu
    Participant
    Newbie

    The balance between ranged and melee characters needs to be improved.  I played through with a magic based ranged character and utterly destroyed everything without taking many if any hits, the bosses and elites were easy.  On the other hand playing through with a dual dagger wielding thief, most of the bosses and elites were much harder to kill and had a high chance of killing me.

    #12200

    Calistaen [Wolcen Staff]
    Keymaster
    Guardian Angel
    Newbie

    Already planned 🙂

    Community Manager
    Wolcen Studio

    #12370

    Aeri
    Participant
    Newbie

    plz nerf ranged instead of making melee stronger.

    I had so much more fun playing a warrior than a mage…

    #12393

    Valkere
    Participant
    Newbie

    Uhm, sure ranged is better if you’re affraid to take a hit, but melee dps is way way way higher already

    I can kill Grozogr within 10s with my melee char if i want, can’t do that with my caster or ranged.

     

    Tbh. I find the mobs overall to weak in this game, the endboss was the only reall challenge but i’d still give him like double or tripple hp.

    #12467

    Illyana
    Participant
    Newbie

    Really? I killed the Big boss in like 30 seconds with my thief. The next fastest one to that was the mage.

    #12484

    Valkere
    Participant
    Newbie

    Pretty much, most of the time is getting rage or having to dodge one of his swings.

    Think i do an average of around 20-30k dmg with a single skill.

    slap slap slap dead …

    #13120

    Malachi
    Participant
    Newbie

    Good to see that balance is in the plans. I think one of the issues that usually surrounds Melee is incoming damage. Simply put, you are forced to stand in the bad far more often then ranged classes do. Various ARPG’s have resolved this with a variety of methods:

    1. Toughness: simply give melee characters higher levels of toughness. more elemental resists, physical resists, armor, etc. In a game like this with a huge passive tree, it’s as simple as adding passive resists to the trees. This would also resolve the whole squishy thief/tough warrior issue: a DPS melee build would have less passive resists then a tanky build. both have to have balance in the end: a tanky build should be able to kill like a DPS build would, but simply take more time. I remember back in early Diablo3 where melee builds simply sucked until they added a universal Damage reduction for melee classes, to the tune of 30% and higher (it eventually got allot higher). it was simple, but it resolved the imbalance relatively well.I prefer to see this in the passive tree, since this is a classless game.
    2. higher damage: melee does more damage when in range, thus doesn’t need to be in melee all the time. This can easily get OP quick depending on how characters are built, but it’s an option. I prefer #1. An alternative solution to just buffing damage is to make DoT’s or bleeds more common in melee setups. this damage type allows you to DoT up the mob, then kite if needed without losing too much damage overall.
    3. Gap closers: This works well with #2. Melee have more gap closers, thus the need to have to be in melee rage all the time is less of an issue. You could also include gap increases as well for the ranged builds. This would allow them to get out of melee range easier, affording them more kiting options.
    4. Kiting a rare bird: This option is almost the direct reverse of #3. It gives mobs more closing gap skills, ranged skills, and stun abilities, making range less of an advantage. Grim dawn does this. Most ranged/casters have to build as sturdy as melee toons do simply because 3/4 of the mobs will be in your face after a second or two. In this concept you have to make CC skills and movement debuffs Less common, limiting the true ranged kiting builds more rare. Some players don’t like this concept, as a ranged “glass cannon” cannot exist with this model. But it really does even the odds between the two build types.
    5. More Stuns/stun resists with melee: This is a side option to 3, but deserves it’s own category. With more stuns, a melee toon can stand to be in melee range longer. add into that the stun resists, and they can deal with damage easier, especially if you have life leech options. One game in  particular I play has life leech as a weapon damage only component, so any skill that doesn’t involve weapon damage doesn’t leech. This is an easy solution as well for melee…most casters spells don’t do weapon damage, thus they’d leech back far less life.

    I’m sure there’s plenty more styles, but these are the ones I see most often. I would prefer a combo of #1 and #3 personally…pushing damage too high unbalances things, especially in a game where passives are across the board. #4 can fit in relatively well with this too. Adding more ranged skills with mobs to force ranged builds to adjust and dodge as much as melee builds do really works well in this setup.

    #13296

    lacivert
    Participant
    Newbie

    according to my experience with my dw thief, incoming damage is not a problem. I have enough hp/dodge rate to mitigate. The problems are:

    – Long cc duration: If you fight with 2 bosses at the same time and if both have cc you can enter an infinite stun-freeze-stun loop. Shortening cc duration or giving some resist can solve it.

    – Aura damage: Continunious damage that you cannot dodge can hurt in long fights. I think aura damage should be decreased.

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